Curse

LordMahal · Apr 10, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Ummm....if this wasnt in a game Id have to say... bill of rights. But again, who the hell cares? Its a symbol for gods sake. It wont hurt you, it wont cause your PC to meltdown, and if its part of a certain nations language/heritage, there is nothing you can do about it. If it were to be used improperly, how that could be is beyond me, then reporting is the right step. I mean, doesnt Castle Wolfenstein have soldiers with the "bad" symbol on them?

myword · Apr 10, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

They really are begging for trouble (it clearly states it doesnt matter which way it points). With more than 1 million players their legal department should consider the fact that to half their player base that symbol stands for something best left in the past.

doubt it.

leprekan · Apr 10, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Personally I don't pay attention to half the morons in guild wars so it won't be an issue for me. If you think out of 1 million players that a "sensitive" parent is not going to come across it and have a melt down. Then you really are out of touch with the volume of lawsuits brought daily over rather dumb things.

LordMahal · Apr 10, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

No doubt people get mad about small things, and go to court. But you cant stop a nation of people or a group of a certain religeon, whatever from using a symbol that they use in everyday life. Anet isnt going to tell americans to stop typing OK, just because in another language maybe that means I just slept with your mom or something.

Lady Lozza · Apr 10, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

With all due respect Leprekan, did you read any of the above posts, or look at the section on wiki of Nazi Germany? The "swastika" which we've all come to associate with the Nazis has the base of: x and the tails pointed in a clockwise direction. Manji, however has the base of + and the tails can be pointed in EITHER direction but they only ALLOW the version that points counter-clockwise.

Personally when people started talked about this I had no idea what they were going on about. IMHO the manji looks nothing like the Nazi flag, so I didn't even pick up on the vague similarity.

If you want to ban the manji why don't we ban the letter "x" while we're at it, after all it too is very similar to the swastika.

mega_jamie · Apr 10, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Its also used in paganism as a symbol of protection, it can be confusing to some people, and id guess that becuase of that you may find it offensive, but id be more offended if they removed the use of that image

leprekan · Apr 10, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

With all due respect Lozza ... did YOU happen to read the definition? If Wiki fails you Google is a great alternative. I will cut and paste for you again

The swastika (from Sanskrit स्वस्तिक svastika) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles in either left-facing (卍) or right-facing (卐) direction. The swastika is a holy symbol in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. In the West, it is most widely known and used as a symbol of Nazism. It is traditionally oriented so that a main line is horizontal, though it is occasionally rotated at forty-five degrees. The Hindu version is often decorated with a dot in each quadrant.

Your + x argument just went out the window.

LordMahal · Apr 10, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Was thinking about the parental issue. I wouldnt have a meltdown if my kid said, hey dad, whats that symbol? Id explain it the best way I could, using sources of unbias information. I mean there are much harder things to talk to kids about than a symbol.

leprekan · Apr 10, 2006, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordMahal

Was thinking about the parental issue. I wouldnt have a meltdown if my kid said, hey dad, whats that symbol? Id explain it the best way I could, using sources of unbias information. I mean there are much harder things to talk to kids about than a symbol.

LOL, I just noticed your location. Is that correct? I have a friend from Germany that goes nuts if someone brings up nazis "it is poor taste" is his reason.

Lady Lozza · Apr 10, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Firstly Leprekan, wiki is not necessarily correct. Assuming, however, that it is, I would very much like to see a version of the Nazi flag where the swastika was written on the base of a "+".
It may very well be that sometimes the Asians use it as a "x" however I imagine that since WWII that has been resticted BECAUSE of the association with the Nazis.

Google works just fine btw, and about.com is also a useful source for information.
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/34/3413.html

NOTE: the "this form of the swastika" part.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 10, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

Those arent swasticas. Go buy an education.

BS. They are both swastikas, they even mean the same thing originally (sun symbol), it's just not identical in looks to the one adopted by the nazis. Both types go waaaaay back, to pre-buddhist pre-christian probably even pre-hindu roots. That's why the nazis used it, it was seen as a symbol of the original "aryan" people they believed they were the pure descendants of.

But the origin doesn't really matter. What does matter is that that will be seen as a nazi symbol by pretty much every westerner who sees it, will be USED as a nazi symbol in the game by asshats who think nazism is "cool and evol". You don't think these guys are using it in their names/guild tags as a symbol of their Hindu faith, do you?

It should not be a legal character of the game.

leprekan · Apr 10, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Firstly Leprekan, wiki is not necessarily correct. Assuming, however, that it is, I would very much like to see a version of the Nazi flag where the swastika was written on the base of a "+".
It may very well be that sometimes the Asians use it as a "x" however I imagine that since WWII that has been resticted BECAUSE of the association with the Nazis.

Google works just fine btw, and about.com is also a useful source for information.
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/34/3413.html

NOTE: the "this form of the swastika" part.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nazi_symbols

Scroll down to dear Adolf's symbol of choice. You are missing the point on purpose it seems.

Yichi · Apr 10, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Personally i know the guild in question, yes i was even in that guild grp that held halls during the picture, and no they arent doing it to be offensive, they did it basically just because they could. everyone that has ever run across that guild either laffs at the name, says like wow u guys are cool, or ignores it and continues play.

They arent out to offend anyone with it, just out to have fun playing the game. gl to them

Numa Pompilius · Apr 10, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

LOL, I just noticed your location. Is that correct? I have a friend from Germany that goes nuts if someone brings up nazis "it is poor taste" is his reason.

Especially asian people, but also young americans, sometimes don't understand the charge the swastika has in europe, because they were not touched by nazism. Waving swastikas around is to europeans like, say, parading in Söul wearing WWII japanese uniforms would be to Koreans, or preaching in Central Park about how the 9/11 terrorists are glorious martyrs and heroes, would be to americans.

In europe nazis aren't movie villains in cool uniforms, but the deluded bastards who murdered my parents, or my grandparents.

True, even in europe the stigma of the nazis is fading, and young people today are probably little more offended than young americans or asians, but in parts of europe, e.g. Germany and Sweden, it is still illegal to merely display a swastika.

myword · Apr 10, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

BS. They are both swastikas, they even mean the same thing originally (sun symbol), it's just not identical in looks to the one adopted by the nazis. Both types go waaaaay back, to pre-buddhist pre-christian probably even pre-hindu roots. That's why the nazis used it, it was seen as a symbol of the original "aryan" people they believed they were the pure descendants of.

But the origin doesn't really matter. What does matter is that that will be seen as a nazi symbol by pretty much every westerner who sees it, will be USED as a nazi symbol in the game by asshats who think nazism is "cool and evol". You don't think these guys are using it in their names/guild tags as a symbol of their Hindu faith, do you?

It should not be a legal character of the game.

so because of a demented man who perverted the meaning of a holy symbol, we should shun another's religous symbol?

no, i don't think they use it as a symbol of their Hindu faith, their Buddhist one maybe.

but what's obvious is, you don't read Mandarin, do you?

Numa Pompilius · Apr 10, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by myword

so because of a demented man who perverted the meaning of a holy symbol, we should shun another's religous symbol?

Yes. Because it's not being used as a religious symbol, it's being used as a symbol of nazism. They just don't understand what that actually means, they just think they're cool and evil.

Quote:

no, i don't think they use it as a symbol of their Hindu faith, their Buddhist one maybe. but what's obvious is, you don't read Mandarin, do you?

Nej, är du bra på svenska, ditt jävla pucko?
It doesn't matter, does it.

LordMahal · Apr 10, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Oh yeah its illegal, but many things are illegal in germany. And yes... I do actually live here. Maybe in poland would going around dressed up like a SS trooper be bad, but not in germany. Granted you would go to jail, but here the concept the Nazi's were trying to establish, is still very much part of life here. AND NO it was not trying to kill millions for no reason, there was more to it than that. Todays Nazi organizations seek something along the same lines, just without the killing. There was even a government group who tried to get a member elected to presidency, just a couple years back. The idea of what the Nazis wanted is still very much alive, its the methods that have changed... thank god.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 10, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordMahal

Maybe in poland would going around dressed up like a SS trooper be bad, but not in germany.

Complete and utter bullshit. Try it and see what happens.

UndeadRoadkill · Apr 10, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

They're Taiwanese, I really wouldn't be surprised if they were Buddhists. Did you look at the picture? It's not exactly a guild called *swastika*siegheil14/88*swasitka* or anything.

Wouldn't banning it be like banning use of the cross, just because the Ku Klux Klan liked them?

UndeadRoadkill · Apr 10, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

They just don't understand what that actually means, they just think they're cool and evil.

Why do you think that?